Join us On the Steps of 36: a question-and-answer conversation that crosses thresholds into our guests’ histories, lives, influences and stories, shedding light on the person behind the work.
In this episode, Harriet Jennings is in conversation with Naina Gupta, an architect, writer and educator with a PhD from the AA who recently launched her book Extraordinary Pools at the AA Bookshop.
Ryan Dillon:
Join us On the Steps of 36, a question-and-answer conversation that crosses thresholds into the histories, lives, influences and stories of the person behind the work. A podcast by AirAA at the Architectural Association.
Harriet Jennings:
Hello and welcome to On the Steps of 36, a podcast by AirAA at the Architectural Association. Today we are joined by Naina Gupta. Naina is an architect and writer. She has a PhD from the AA that focuses on social reform, internationalism and modern architecture, and she currently teaches at the University of Sheffield at the School of Architecture and Landscape Architecture.
In May, Naina published the new book Extraordinary Pools and held the launch at the AA Bookshop. The publication is a mosaic of exceptional public and private pools, asserting the protean quality of the swimming pool as a space of activity, pleasure and excess. One of the starting points for the book was a symposium that we organised with Naina as part of the AA Public Programme called Swimming Pool Stories. It was one of my first events at the AA and it invited participants to present the relationships between swimming and its influence on the architectural imaginary.
So we enjoyed those presentations before we all tucked into an incredible swimming pool cake which was made by the AA catering team with modernist diving boards and swimmers 3D printed by our Digital Prototyping Lab. So it's a great pleasure to welcome you back to the AA, Naina, for this podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.
Naina Gupta:
Thank you so much for inviting me, Harriet. It's lovely to be back, especially because you were at that first event. It was one of my first events as well. The start of the research, really.
HJ:
Oh, it was. It was a lovely one. So we're going to begin. If you could please tell us your full name and what generation you'd say you belong to.
NG:
Okay, so my name is Naina Gupta and I'm not going to tell you which generation. I'm going to say I was born in 1976.
HJ:
Brilliant. And what's something about you that you wouldn't normally include in your bio?
NG:
I'm incredibly patient and I'm incredibly determined.
HJ:
Lovely. And where did you grow up, Naina?
NG:
Bangalore, India. That's where I grew up. Yeah.
HJ:
What sort of building did you grow up in?
NG:
I don't know. I've been trying to figure out if it exists anywhere else. It's essentially what one would call an apartment building, but it's not.
It's a bungalow with two floors where each of the floors have a separate entrance from the road and it, from the outside, it looks like a complete bungalow. I grew up on the upper level.
What I remember about it is really the terrace or the balcony, it was semi covered, but the size of it, it was huge. It was bigger than the master bedroom. And I spent a lot of my time playing in that balcony.
HJ:
And did you know your neighbours, the people underneath you?
NG:
Was that all of them? All of the neighbours on the entire street? It was that time where you played on the street.
So we played hide and seek on construction sites. We played cricket. I went swimming, actually, with one of the neighbours. We would go swimming every evening together after school.
HJ:
Oh, lovely.
NG:
The pool was literally down at the end of the street. Yeah, the bottom of it.
HJ:
You started young and also maybe started your interest in architecture young from those cricket games in the construction sites. Who were you close to or who inspired you as a child?
NG:
I was a very shy child. So I want to say my brother, I've always been close to him. I still am. We played a lot together.
What I remember is whenever he read something, he'd come home and tell me about it and summarise it for me. And that's where my love for books actually started. And even today, whenever we talk, he's always got a recommendation.
He's very widely read. I rarely met anyone else who reads as much as he does.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
So whenever I want something new or different, I actually ask him. And a lot of my reading is from him recommending something brilliant.
HJ:
What was a special place for you growing up?
NG:
I think I have a memory of my parents taking us on Sundays to the swimming pool. They took my brother and I and we never had any classes and they taught us how to swim. And I remember that pool vividly.
I remember the orange armbands. I remember the chocolate cake after. I think maybe that's the association.
HJ:
Was that the reward for the swimming lesson, the chocolate cake?
NG:
It was just a lovely, you know, like a lovely cake shop in that hotel. And there was this huge pyramid shaped chocolate cake, enormous. My brother and I had to obviously share.
And I have a feeling I didn't get the bigger bite, but I do have very fond memories of chocolate cake.
HJ:
Who knew that there was such an association between swimming and cakes? We did that unintentionally with the symposium,
NG:
Apparently there is.
HJ:
I love what you say about those evocative memories of the swimming pool. Because I feel like when you go swimming as a child, there is like a sensory overload, isn't there? There's like the smell of the chlorine, that kind of sound of the ricocheting shouting off the walls.
NG:
Yeah, yeah. And the kids around and, you know, it's a very social space for me, very formative.
HJ:
And turning to your work now, how would you describe what you do?
NG:
First, I'm an architect. That's what I am. I mean, what I studied. I think I studied nine years at the Architectural Association.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
And then I taught. I've been teaching ever since. But before that I studied five years of a bachelor's in architecture in India and I worked for years.
I would always say I'm an architect, but what do I do as an architect? I don't practice anymore, but I do write about architecture and I teach architecture and I research.
But I think my view is all through the architectural lens. So I would always describe myself as an architect.
HJ:
And did you always know that that's what you'd end up doing?
NG:
I love your questions. I have to say they really brought about some very nice memories of childhood. So when I was little, my mom was going to build a house, so she took me to meet the architect. And I remember this lovely lady. And maybe, of course, you know, memories are slightly. You construct them later with time as well, the more you remember something.
But, you know, I remember her talking about the house she was going to build for us. And even then my little brain knew the power that architecture would have, the kind of ability to create a dream. I think ever since then, I knew I was going to study architecture. Did I understand completely what that meant or how far it would go? No, I always thought it was about building a building or designing a building.
I didn't realise how deep it was and, you know, how much it would consume me ever since.
HJ:
Amazing. It's interesting how you say you're first and foremost an architect, but it has gone on to have these slightly different facets or ways of practicing and I suppose, you know, research that you're doing now, that is very much one of them. But it's nice how it sort of evolved for you. But if you could change your field of study or work, what would you do instead? If anything.
NG:
You know, when I was at school, we had to do an aptitude test. I don't know. Do you have to do one here?
HJ:
I don't think so, no.
NG:
So we had to do one.
They told me to study law and it always stayed with me. I enjoyed law and it was when I was studying for my PhD, actually, when I started with my MPhil over here at the Architectural Association, I studied the International Criminal Court and I really read a lot of books and law at that time about the relationship between space and law. And now I'm very interested in the body and athletics and that's actually where swimming comes in.
So would I study anything else or would I have studied anything else? I just feel architecture allows me to bring in all the other stuff.
But having said that, if I ever had a chance to study more, say, in a couple of years, I would love to go to Oxford University and I would love to study the classics and Asian and Middle East Eastern studies, especially specifically mythology and its transnational interpretations.
HJ:
Very interesting.
NG:
Yeah. Yeah, I really. I. Yeah, that would be something I would really enjoy.
HJ:
We'll never say never.
NG:
Never. I mean, sure.
HJ:
Is there a particular space that you work in at the moment, and if so, what does it look like?
NG:
I work in a lot of universities. I find them fascinating. I. I teach a small, very small course at the University of Westminster and I teach at the University of Sheffield. Right.
And I don't know if you know the Sheffield building, it's the Arts Tower, it's essentially a tower, but Westminster is this, you know, almost horizontal building. And I just really enjoy. And of course, I know the Architectural association intimately. I mean, I was here for nine years, so I know the building.
So I really enjoy how these spaces shape the way that we understand architecture.
So I work in all these different spaces and I like how each of them are slightly different and how we teach is slightly different because of how different they are.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
But I also personally work a lot in libraries, London library being one, the Wellcome Found Trust library being another, the British Library. I mean, you've got a beautiful collection in London.
HJ:
Yeah, no, it's true. Very lucky.
NG:
Yeah. I do work a lot in libraries.
HJ:
You mentioned before the significance of books, particularly the ones that your brother recommended when you were younger. Is there one that had the most significant impact on the way you approach your work, do you think?
NG:
No, not those. Not those. But I think those brought about a love for reading and writing.
But if I had to say, significant impact of books, I would say Robin Evans was very important. George Tasso and recently Amir Srinivasan. I don't have you read Amiya Shreen, So I think she's at Oxford.
I might be wrong, but at least she was at the All Souls College. She's one of the fellows over there and she's written, as far as I know, one book and he said about the intersection of race with feminist arguments.
So she really talks about the importance of intersectionality.
HJ:
Right.
NG:
But I think what I like about all three authors is the way that they write their essays, is their arguments are extremely nuanced, very complex.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
And I think they've been. So I always. I find that I go back to them. Whenever I have to write a new paper, I go back and read one of them.
So I think that they're very important to me in the way that they frame things and construct arguments and write.
HJ:
Very interesting. Turning to architecture a bit more, where do you live now? What sort of building?
NG:
I live in an apartment building. I live on the fourth floor. s, I want to say. Right. Northwest London. It's a nice. Yeah, it's a very simple apartment building.
HJ:
Lovely. And is there a hidden building or space that you'd recommend for people to visit? Could be in any city.
NG:
What I love doing is meandering through little streets and finding little lanes. So I would just. I mean, I've never, never gotten tired of it.
And I don't think I've kind of covered all of the map of London and I find London absolutely stunning just for the variety. It's almost like, you know, patchwork quilt now. But if. If there was. If there's one building in London that I would.
That I go regularly to, and I can never tire of is the isocon. I don't know what it is about that building. I haven't quite put a finger on it, but I go every year to see it. It hasn't changed in the.
Every year that I've gone, the gallery might get a new exhibition, but I don't. There's something so beautiful, I never get tired of it. And every time I discover I learn something new about it, which I find more interesting.
It's like once I went there and there was this gentleman who took me up to the flats to look at it and I was just like, wow, this is, like, stunning. And then the other time we went behind and we, you know, we looked at the gardens and.
HJ:
Oh, that's amazing.
NG:
Yeah, yeah. So I feel like it just unfolds.
The more it's like a good book, the more you read it you suddenly start seeing things that you didn't see the first time around.
HJ:
Do you go during. Because I've been to visit it during the open House festival. But do you just go at any time and people show you around?
NG:
Well, I've been lucky. I wouldn't say that I've been lucky that I've. I've gone because I do take students there.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
So sometimes people do get like, you know, they're. They're friendly. Especially if you meet someone in the gallery and you show that you're really interested in the architecture.
They are kind and generous with, you know, how they share that building with you. But I've not gone an open house, sort of. I always struggle to make bookings.
HJ:
I know it's. That one in particular is always so fully booked. But it was nice because we got to see.
I think we went into two people's flats, which was very generous. Yeah, they were quite different. And they, you know, showed you around them. So, yeah, it was nice.
I can see how it would keep unfolding, though, the more you go. And I'd love to see the gardens. That would be amazing. If you could visit one piece of architecture that no longer exists, what would it be?
NG:
The Moskva Pool. I would love to swim on that. Like that is. You were there at the symposium, Harry.
Do you remember the lady describing her experience with the snow coming down the quadrants of the pool? And even Rem Koolhaas described. When I was in Moscow, I did this small kind of a fellowship. I was there a couple of times.
But the first time Rem described his experience, and I think he's written about it in S, M, L, XL as well. And he talks about swimming in the Moskva Pool and. Yeah, I would love to swim there. And I just remembered which building I'd love to live in.
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I blanked out there for a moment. It was the case study.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
By Pierre Koenig. Koenig. I think that's how you pronounce his name. It's a very famous photograph by Julius Schulman. Where you see the.
It's like we're taken in the living room of the house and you kind of basically see downtown Louisiana beyond, and the lines of the house kind of converge. And that house has a lovely story behind it. But the pool is also gorgeous because it's like precariously on this platform on this hillside, which.
And the pool is almost bored out of this platform. And again, the view is downtown lake.
HJ:
Amazing.
NG:
So, yeah, I think that would be the house that I'd love to live in.
HJ:
Very good choice. Do you have a particular landscape or outdoor place that's meaningful to you?
NG:
Recently it's been so. My dad passed away a couple of a year. A year or so ago, and we brought his ashes to this river that we do in India. And you bring them to the river.
And I've had. And I've always had an affinity towards water, but that. That space has become quite meaningful to me.
But also, I think because we kind of, you know, we submerge the ashes, I kind of even feel closer to water because it almost feels like now, because water is connected across the world. So whenever I go into a body of water, I almost feel like it's all part of one large system. So, yeah, I. Generally, it's water.
Natural bodies of water. Mm.
HJ:
Very beautiful. If you could remove a popular building or piece of art from the canon, what would it be and what would you replace it with?
NG:
I wouldn't remove one, I think. Yeah, I wouldn't remove a building from the canon, I think.
HJ:
Would you add a building, perhaps?
NG:
I might add one, but I think. I think the most important thing for me would be. I mean, we'd add.
Of course, we must add to that canon because, I mean, the canon was constructed at a particular time and it was not meant to be a canon that is, you know, static.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
But I think what I would love to do or what I try to do in my teaching is really discuss the same canonical buildings from different points of view, because I feel like that is where we are. It's not about removing and cancelling and ignoring. It's about, you know, reframing and revising. So that's what I would.
I would love to have the opportunity to do. And that's what I think I do a lot more with my research, you know, replace or rework with the canon. So right now I'm, like, researching this.
This municipal pool by Otto Konigsberger in Bangalore. But importantly enough, I'm also connecting it to the Empire Pool. Do you know this in Wembley?
HJ:
I've heard of it, yeah.
NG:
Yeah. Designed by Sir Owen Williams, the same architect who designed the Pioneer Health Center. So this Empire Pool.
So I think it's like it's trying to understand or reconstruct the relationship between this object, which, you know, which of course has a name, Empire Pool, and reconnected back to, you know, to the relationship. The. The colonial relationship between Britain and India.
So I think things like that, like how do we start to stop looking at buildings only as objects but, you know, almost interconnected, Interconnect them, spread them out, you know, bring them. Bring them back into sort of focus in relationship to something else? That's what I'd love to do with the canon.
HJ:
Yeah, more of that. Yeah, very interesting. Oh, I'd love to hear more about that. Research into the pool.
So turning now to culture, what would you consider to be your perfect meal?
NG:
Toast.
HJ:
Great answer.
NG:
I mean, it's like something that I rarely eat anymore, but. Oh, God, toast.
HJ:
Toast with anything on it or butter and jam.
NG:
It's something that, you know, it's like. It's a bit more sinful. A bit, you know, excessive, maybe.
HJ:
I wouldn't say it's that excessive.
NG:
I don't know. It's all. With the new, you know, the diets and the carb. The fear of carbohydrates.
HJ:
No, we don't need to fear carbohydrates. I think that is a delicious perfect meal.
NG:
I think so. For me, that's like. Like a perfect summer meal, actually.
HJ:
Summer?
NG:
Yeah. In the evening after a swimming, you come back home and eat a piece of toast and it's like idyllic.
HJ:
If you had to recommend a non-architecture book to architects, what would it be?
NG:
There's so many so in. I'm in non-fiction. And then here became like Club Question, what am I reading right now? I'm reading this book called – I'm gonna get the name wrong, I'm sure. Boys in a Boat. I think there's a movie as well. But I recommend the book.
I am reading that and I would recommend that in terms of non-fiction, it's about. It's about the Washington Rowing Club and how they went to the Olympics and they became Olympic champions. And it's quite.
It's very, very inspirational. But in terms of non-fiction, I love this author. His name is Amor Toles. Do you know his work?
HJ:
No. I do.
NG:
So I've read. I think I've read all of his books. I want to say I've read all of them. But he's written this book called A Gentleman in Moscow.
HJ:
Okay, that does ring a bell.
NG:
Yeah, it's an HBO TV show. And then there's Rules of Civility and this Table for Two, which is a bunch of short stories. But he always interweaves architecture into it. Actually.
Rules of Civility is set with. Within the international style. And he really references it in New York in the s with the Depression.
And he very beautifully connects a big World issue like the Depression with a movement that was happening and a lifestyle and displaying how that changed the life. So you start seeing it in everyday life.
So that connection he draws out, I would definitely recommend that to architects because I think that that really talks about the multi scaler way that we work.
HJ:
Yeah, very interesting. Thank you. I will definitely have to read that. If you could inhabit one film or artwork, what would it be?
NG:
Neil Gaiman's Sandman series. I'd love to be Morpheus, but assuming that I can't. Suppose I can't. I'd like to be the raven that sits on his shoulder.
HJ:
Why the raven?
NG:
Because it flies. Because it's his eyes. Because sometimes Morpheus gets into trouble and the raven saw him, I think in my point of view.
But yeah, it's a good choice, I think.
HJ:
So what was the last cultural event that you attended?
NG:
I went to the musical Hadestown.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
Have you seen? Recommended. It's good. It's really good.
HJ:
What's it about?
NG:
It is mythological. It's basically about Orpheus going down to hell and bringing Eurydice back.
But of course it's an old story but they have this sort of political edge to it. Okay, very interesting. Where we see Hades and Persephone as well. And then you know, Hadestown is very.
It's very much about the industrial revolution, about this idea that work will make you free. It's a lot of the sort of things that we know of the 19th century that has led to the situation we are right now where the scorched earth sort of.
So they, they very subtly bring in these sort of themes in a very age old, you know, in myth.
HJ:
Yeah, yeah. Timeless.
NG:
It is timeless. It's very interesting. Yeah. I do edit and the music was excellent. I do recommend it.
HJ:
I'll have to. Yeah, I'll check it out. Thank you.
NG:
You're welcome.
HJ:
What TV show have you most re watched?
NG:
Good Omens. I like that. I like the new. I particularly. I mean while I like the first season, I particularly love the.
HJ:
I have had it on my list for a while and I haven't got
NG:
around to watching it yet, but fun. It's intelligent and it was, you know, the book was a collaboration between Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman.
HJ:
Right.
NG:
And it's based on. It's like started as a spoof of Omens, the movie. I remember Omens from when I was a child. Right. So Good Omens was obviously quite a pleasure to read.
And then this TV show is Very well made.
HJ:
Brilliant. What was the first piece of music that really impacted or resonated with you?
NG:
I'm not very musical, but I learned a lot of music.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
I was terrible at it. I think the teacher. I think she just, like, felt really sorry for me because I wanted it so badly.
Like, she'd be like, okay, I think I can listen to this woman playful one hour. So I started with the violin. I started with the guitar. I was not too bad at with the guitar. I should have just stuck to it.
But then I decided I wanted the violin. I wanted to. I wanted to play the violin. And that's an unforgiving instrument.
HJ:
It is.
NG:
And then I decided, ooh, I want to play the cello. So at that time, this. My teach. Teacher was this lovely Parsi lady from. In Bombay. And I think.
I think also she really enjoyed teaching me because I was one of the only adults in her class.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
So she was like, finally, I can have a conversation about architecture. So half the class was her talking to me because she was like, this one's not going to improve ever. But she.
When I told her I really love the sound of the cello, she gave me this movie about Jacqueline Dupre, and I fell in love with the Elga Concerto. And it's something that I listen to. I find it very beautiful. Melancholic sometimes.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
But really beautiful. I do listen to it quite a bit.
HJ:
Yeah. Beautiful piece. When did you start this musical journey? Was this from childhood, or did you come to music as an adult?
NG:
No, I did start when I was a child, and I wish I'd stuck with it then. I didn't, so. I didn't. I mean, I think, yeah, I wish I had, but I didn't. And then I came back to it as an adult, and I. I'm still very determined.
HJ:
What instrument are you on to now?
NG:
Not yet. But when I have more time, it's going to be the piano.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
I feel like that'll be a little bit more forgiving.
HJ:
You've moved away from strings.
NG:
Yeah. Yeah. They did not work.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
I mean, it's worth a try. I mean, but that cello was gorgeous. I just. I love the way it sits against the body.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
And if you play it correctly, I kind of learned that if you play the same C chord correctly or the C note, you can actually feel it on your spine. And it's absolutely. It's a. It's. It's a wonderful object. And I. I was like. At one point, I was like, oh, maybe I should move to the double bass.
And I was like, no, okay, I'm done. Like, this is not. Like sometimes you have to give up or not give up.
HJ:
Maybe just sort of move on.
NG:
Move on?
HJ:
Yeah, move on. So what music, if any, do you like listening to when you work?
NG:
I don't listen to music when I work.
HJ:
No.
NG:
Not at all? No.
HJ:
Not even the Elgar cello concerto?
NG:
Not when I work.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
When I work, it's, it's, it's, it's not silent, but it's, there's no music on.
HJ:
Okay. Yeah. When, when do you listen to music?
NG:
Is it generally. I listen to music when I go for walks.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
When I exercise. I, I travel to Sheffield regularly. So I listen to music on the journey back.
HJ:
Yeah, yeah. While moving. And this is quite a random one, but. What was the last post that you made on social media and on what platform?
NG:
I went to the VA east or house on Sunday and I took a photograph and I. And I posted it and I said I loved it and I really did.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
I mean, it reminded me of so many other projects built in the s which talked about this exhibition space, archive storehouses, you know, so. But it was pure, I thought, I thought it was really well done. So that was the post. I, I made a little story and it was on Instagram.
I, I think social media basically for me is Instagram and it's, it's, it's, it's work related.
HJ:
Yeah, yeah.
NG:
Or my kid, cats sometimes, Sometimes every once in a while.
HJ:
Give the people what they want. So turning now to current affairs, what do you think of current conversations around public health and how it relates to the. I suppose the degradation of existing welfare infrastructure such as leisure centres or public pools or the places you write about?
NG:
I think it's something that I'm very interested in trying to understand better. This idea of accessibility, equal access in a way, whether it is to public infrastructure but also to nature.
We make these assumptions that because something is there, everyone can use it. Right. It's. It's equally available. I don't think it is. So there's some. That's one aspect of it.
But I've also noticed it's also very shocking for me and it's very sad, actually.
I'm not from here, obviously I was born in India, but I always really love this country for its generosity, you know, the amount of infrastructure it has created for health. But it's also very saddening to see it almost erode.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
And I see it. I use public swimming pools and I've recently stopped using the changing rooms as much.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
I do. I feel that they're not maintained as well. You know, I, I was very surprised the other day. I went to Charlton Lido.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
And it was expensive for a swim. I mean, it's something I enjoy doing. I'm happy to pay for it.
But I, I was a bit like, hang on a minute, I need to research this because there are not too many pools in that area. And if the one pool that is there is this expensive, who is it excluding? Yeah.
I find this really interesting, especially where we're in a moment where the government is saying we need to pre-emptively make health better.
We need to spend more money on creating spaces where people can get healthy so that they're not relying so much on, like on the NHS and the NHS and you know, they're not getting sick so much. And I think these health facilities were important and they were there. Yeah.
Now, I'm not praising the Pioneer Health centre, but I think at that time those two doctors understood what it meant to create these spaces as social spaces and as health spaces and they work as social spaces.
Like in the leisure centre I go to, I hear a lot of ladies, older ladies, talk about their days or, you know, especially in winter when they're more isolated. They love talking to each other.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
They go to the pool together, they do exercise classes. I mean, very, very important social infrastructure which will help mental health as well.
HJ:
Yeah, Right.
NG:
And then there's this conversation about all the sick days people are taking because, hell, I mean, how do you remove. Why don't you maintain. Why are you creating more barriers to access to these centres? Yeah, right.
If, if the changing rooms are nice, people would also be very happy to take a shower together, maybe get a coffee, you know, extend the time together. It would also help someone who maybe comes from a less affluent background to not have to use the water at home or pay the electric.
You know what I mean? Yes, it is an offering and they are paying for it in a small way, but, you know, it should be balanced.
And I, and I wonder what is happening with that. So I am a little bit like, I'm saddened. That's what I feel.
HJ:
Yeah. I mean, I think you described that so nicely that the effects are so far reaching.
It's not just physical bodily health, it's social health, it's mental health.
And I think it's interesting that you speak about that generosity, which I suppose I would associate with that kind of post war years when lots of this public Infrastructure was built. Do you think we've lost that generosity? And do you think. Can you see it coming back? Or do you think it would morph into something new and different?
NG:
So the swimming pools were actually s. They were an early generosity. Morrison, was it Morrison. I want to say it was. Who talked about London as the city of lidos?
The s was very ripe around all the world. Yeah. With exercise. And I think it was also. The Olympic Games was becoming a very big thing.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
So suddenly there was this offer and, you know, everyone was thinking about sport and then health, and then, of course, the s generosity. I mean, I think when the Parliament Hill Lido was built, it was actually called. I think it was.
It was referred to as a very generous offering by the city, by the council, or something to that effect. But do I think it's coming back? I think we should work hard to make it come back.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
It's a real shame to let these get destroyed. We've lost a lot of them. And, you know, I say we, but I do feel like, you know, it belongs to the people and, you know, they've gone.
I mean, they've slowly. They slowly disappear. And there are a lot of groups that are trying. I'm also part of something called Swimmable Cities.
I'm a signatory in that, and I was part of their conference at a very, very tiny input. So I'm not a founding member. I'm just part of the whole group in a way.
And they're really pushing for, you know, urban waterways and making them accessible and reconnecting people with, you know, and their relationship with water. Yeah. So the water is no longer something that is far away from you, but you actually access it. And what does that mean? Maybe not every.
Every place can. You can. Maybe you won't be able to swim everywhere, but that's something that we're looking. And there's generally a conversation around it.
HJ:
Yeah. Oh, that's really interesting to hear.
NG:
Yeah. So there's a big movement, and I think that's also.
And you cannot have, so Swimmable Cities if you don't have good public infrastructure where you teach young kids.
HJ:
Well, I was going to say, I think I. Yeah, there's. I think, you know, water can be scary for a lot of people because you do have to learn how to swim.
And if you're not given that opportunity at a young age, it probably is. It is a huge barrier, isn't it? So I'm sure there are lots of groups, I think. Is there one called Swim Dam.
That does really good work I think in trying to kind of. Yeah. Get people who might not have been given the opportunity to have swimming lessons to get in the pool, get in the water.
But yeah, there definitely are barriers out there.
NG:
So I think Swim Dam was part of that swimmable city summit as well. And as was the German. Do you know the pool in New York called the plus pool?
HJ:
No.
NG:
So that was. That actually really inspired a lot of people to you know, revisit the swimming pool and its relationship with the natural body of water.
So the plus pool was planned somehow to be in the Hudson, New York. And it was this sort of almost mythical proposal. Right. Architectural proposal. But to be able to do that they had to clean up the river.
So there was this huge drive. But then also this was thing. There was this question of who has access.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
Right. So then they started swimming lessons on the side. So it became this movement which has been inspired a lot of other parts of the world.
And then you know, there's these things of like shipping industry and how they use water and how they pollute water and.
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
You know, and, and, or. Or how they restrict, you know, use of the waterways because shipping is more important because it's an economic benefit. Right.
And so then all these conversations and these interconnected conversations start coming together.
HJ:
That's interesting. I mean you mentioned before how water is so interconnected. It's one big system that all loops back. So. Thanks. That's really interesting.
Was there a lesson or belief that you think has been the hardest to unlearn? It could be to do with swimming and public infrastructure or perhaps more architecturally speaking.
NG:
I think what I've had to learn as I have or unlearn was, you know, when you're young, you believe life is fair, life is equal. If you work hard, you're going to achieve something. I think though, understanding what those actually mean. Yeah.
Or you know, they, you know, or even questioning if they are true. And who's life fair for?
HJ:
Yeah.
NG:
Has been. Has been a very interesting experience.
HJ:
Yeah. Thank you.
NG:
You're welcome.
HJ:
We're going to finish with a quick-fire round.
NG:
My favourite.
HJ:
Okay. So are you a morning person or a night owl?
NG:
Both.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
I can I switch. I can switch very easily. Oh wow.
HJ:
You live in both worlds. And what are you currently reading?
NG:
You did tell us earlier, Boys in a Boat. I want to say that's. What's it called? I forget the author.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
It's terrible.
HJ:
We can look it up and do you have a guilty pleasure tv?
NG:
I can The Sandman second season is releasing today, and I have been waiting for ages.
HJ:
It's been a long wait.
NG:
I know what I'm gonna do this weekend. Watch the whole thing, I have a feeling. And I can re. Watch those.
They're beautifully made.
HJ:
And what is your most prized possession?
NG:
I want to say my kittens. I do understand that they're not possessions, you know, and I did. I was kind of like, you know, the living beings.
I can't possess them, but if I had to, I always think about this like. So one of my biggest fears is because when I go to Sheffield, what if there's a fire? And how will my kittens get out of the house?
Who will open the door for them? Because I'm not there.
So I've actually got this plan in my head that I should give my keys to someone, so if there's a fire in my building, I can ring them and say, can you please go open the door? Should I save my kitten? So I realize that they're my fire, my prize position, possessions.
I wouldn't tell anyone to get anything else from my house, but I would say, get my kittens out.
HJ:
What was your first experience of the aa?
NG:
It was a very beautiful experience. I had two, but I'm going to tell you both, so you're just gonna have to have two. I know it's. I know it's a quick fire round, but I'm taking it slow.
The first one was. The one that was really special to me was . I came to study here for the first time.
And you know how the director of the school always gives you this introduction speech to the, you know, to the new students. And Mohsen Mostafavi was the director then, and he talked about.
He talked about that incident, but then he also talked about the power of architecture. Right. And.
And why it was even more urgent to understand our role and the discipline and what it meant and what was, you know, who was it serving and, you know, these other questions beyond simply the building and it's. That stuck with me. I mean, it was. It was a very powerful. Of course, it was a very, very unique moment of life in the world.
But I think, I think, you know, but not only what he said, but the way that he connected these things and, you know, that is. It it has always stuck with me as a teacher and as an architect.
And the second experience of the AA, which I really cherish, was the first time I came here, for Projects Review.
HJ:
Oh, really?
NG:
I was in love and I just knew I was going to come back.
HJ:
Okay.
NG:
Like it was. That was when I was actually that. That set.
Like I came here and I said, I'm gonna go back there and that is what I'm going to work on. Oh, wow. So all my work after that was catered in a way to what I'd seen here and referring to the AA. And at that time, the AA was very.
I mean, the Internet was quite nascent, I would say.
But I do feel like whatever was there, there was more things available to see, like, or maybe I had friends and they were willing to share the prospectus or something, but I had access or knowledge of the readings and things like that.
HJ:
Interesting. Yeah.
NG:
So I did do a lot of that before I came. Oh, wow.
HJ:
Love. At first projects review, was it student projects that you saw that really inspired you?
NG:
I mean, it was beautiful. I think it was really. And my friend was here studying and he took me around and I said, oh my God. And he.
I remember he looked at me and said, you're shell shocked. You're like in shock. Like, I said, yes, but I don't imagine architecture like this.
And he said, yes, we even challenge what architecture is, you know. And that was it. That was my first love of the AA. Like, I knew I had to come back.
HJ:
That's amazing. To finish. Could you describe the AA in one word?
NG:
Quicksilver.
HJ:
Wow. Could you explain that?
NG:
Well, I think it's a space that is. It moves, it changes, it's constantly forming and, you know, unforming and reforming. And sometimes it's capricious and sometimes it's not.
It just goes with the flow. But I think I always see it as something that is continually changing, Mercurial in a way.
HJ:
Wonderful. Naina, thank you so much for joining us.
NG:
You're very welcome. Thank you, Harriet. It was such a pleasure. Thanks for listening to this episode.
AirAA podcasts are developed, recorded, mixed and edited by the Architectural Association from our home on Bedford Square in central London. To find more episodes, view the show notes and explore other AirAA series, visit air.aaschool.ac.uk.